I like to learn about new cultures, too, so I'm glad to share some of the things I've learned. It's my opinion if different people get to know each other as individuals, maybe there wouldn't be so much trouble in the world because we'd have an understanding of each other.
My talk with Amira (the first Muslim woman I spoke to) was really enlightening. She was proud of being Muslim. I guess that kind of surprised me then; it was post 9/11 and people were still being really nasty to the Muslims who lived around here. And, I live in a University town, used to diversity. Amira was doing post-grad work at the U., and she was pretty young...maybe 22 or so, and right at that age that I would have thought it would be far easier to blend into the mainstream instead of putting up with the crap, you know? Yet, here she was, unashamed of her dress, very pissed off because of what the extemeists were doing to her religion, and doing the best she could to make things right where she could. Some of the other customers ignored her. I found that horrific and rude because they would just talk "around" her.
So, when my opportunity to actually talk seriously with her happened, I was pleased. I mean, after all, I've had to do my full share of explaining my Pagan faith to non-Pagans. It had to feel the same to her in many ways.
She told me that she didn't consider the garb she wore to be encumbering. Her faith asks for modesty and this is how she was raised to dress in public. It was tailored to show off her figure; no way did she look like she was living in a gunny sack or anything! It was her own choice to wear the garb. As I've found out since, most Muslim women *choose* what they wear. The requirement of the Koran is that both women and men dress modestly. How that has come down through the ages varies. For example, the women I work with dress in slacks and long-sleeved blouses. They wear pretty shoes. In the summer when it's really hot, they will even roll their sleeves up a bit. The Koran says that a woman should be covered except for what is necessary to be shown for convenience. So, it is permitted to show the face, the hands and feet. Everything else is supposed to be covered. Men are to be covered from navel to knees.
This manner of dress has been in place for centuries. It originated when the women in the royal households wanted to leave the harems. It was thought improper for anyone but the King to see his women, thus, if the woman was to be in public, they must be covered from head to toes. Modesty was still the key, of course, but Muslim women who were not royalty were only required to dress modestly. Slave women and 'non-respectable" women did not cover their hair. It was a status thing. It was thought that if a woman was dressed modestly in this fashion, rape and assault would not happen to them. Of course we know far better now that isn't always true!
Anyway, in my grandmother's day, Middle Eastern women dressed like everyone else for the most part. It was only when certain regimes came into play that these rules changed. We've now got at least one full generation of women who have grown up wearing the dress we're accustomed to seeing on Muslim women.
Amira described it as being treated like a precious jewel. She said that in American culture, for example, a woman would be given a diamond ring for her engagement and it would be shown off and bragged about. And, there would be envy by some, and hard feelings by others. She said that they are given precious things too, but feel that it is improper to show them off publicly. Instead they are treated very respectfully and cared for in the same way, only shown to the most special people. That then, is what she feels she is like - a precious jewel, not to be flashed around for everyone to see, but to be treated with great respect and care and only "shown" to the people most important to her.
It doesn't stop them from getting an education, or having fun and friends. It doesn't prevent them from shopping or doing all the things we do; the difference is that some of the things end up being segregated, such as swimming, aerobics, or things that might require a different sort of dress code. Remember the furor over the Olympic track star? The extremeist men threatened to kill her and called her a whore because she wanted to wear a full body suit to run. She was not showing her skin, but they felt that showing her form was sacreligious. The Muslims I know personally think that was ridiculous. They were proud of her accomplishments in the sports world and felt she was trying to bring understanding and pride to not only her country but to their religion. But, of course the extremists had to mess that up.
I do intend to ask more questions as time goes on. It occurs to me that just like in other religions, people seem to follow blindly instead of thinking things out. After all, it's far easier, right? So, the Koran states how a woman should be dressed, but the Koran was written how long ago? And the dress then was far different in style for everyone! Yet, they still interpret the dress code of that era to the standard they live by today. I'm not saying what they do is wrong; it just doesn't make sense to dress the same as they did centuries ago...or does it?
7 comments:
So for most Muslim women, it's a personal choice and not something forced upon them? That is something I never knew.
Thanks for sharing!
You're welcome!
I do want to add, though, that there are places where the chador, burkha, and hijab are used as a means to oppress women. Iran, for example under Kohlmeni (I promise I'll look up the proper spelling soon!) would be an example, and another would be under the Taliban rulers. In these places, the garb is used as a control means. My friends, Adi and Hussein, a couple who lived in Tehran, Iran left that country because of the oppression about ten years ago. They weren't even Muslim, yet the women were harrassed because though they were not required to wear the garb, being non-Muslim, the continous strain of the harrassment, such as being stopped and questioned all the time, was too much. They have three children, a son and two daughters. They didn't want their daughters to grow up in that regime. Their son who had just recently married, chose to remain behind because of his wife's family. So, Adi and Hussein may wait for years before they have a chance to see their son or grandchild.
Women in these countries are not allowed to paint their fingernails, must walk with downcast eyes, must stop some parts of their education because it is considered too risque and improper for a woman to know; they are only permitted to be in public in the company of other women or if a male, in the company of their father or brother, or possibly an uncle. It is deeply frowned upon to consider relationships with men, and many marriages are still arranged. This extremist rendering of the Koran is NOT what most Muslims believe...but bad things happen to the people who resist.
I'm getting on my soapbox! ARGH! I'm sorry! If I haven't frightened you off, I'll give you the name of a very interesting book when I get the chance - it's almost midnight here and I need to grab some sleep! And my brain is too fuzzy right now to remember the correct title and author!
I don't mind the 'box'! LOL And any good reading materials are always welcome!
May I suggest reading ANY news account on the muslim communities in ANY country to see just how 'voluntary' this is.
Honor killings in New York, London, Amsterdam, Paris Berlin, etc.
16 year old girls hung in Iran for being 'mouthy'.
Rape victims being stoned to death in Sudan for being 'loose women'.
Women being raped and beaten endlessly in Lebanon, Palestine, Jordan, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Indonesia, etc.
An entire SCHOOL full of girls being forced to burn to death rather than escape while being 'immodest' in Nigeria.
Islamics from Madrassas throught the world strapping bombs onto themselves and blowing up children.
Anyone speaking anything even remotely uncomplimentary about anything to do with Islam being hunted across the globe. Show me this mythical country where Islam is truly about choice and freedom and decency and keeping things 'precious'.
I know how it SHOULD be - that is a very FAR cry from what it *IS* and *WAS*. Study the actions of the Islamists during their various wars (I'll except Saladin, mostly). It's NOT a 'tiny minority of extremists' - Not even close. Do the reading, study the numbers and ask yourself, how many have to tacitly support this active 'tiny minority' for it to be a sizable majority?
Orion
Orion said:
May I suggest reading ANY news account on the muslim communities in ANY country to see just how 'voluntary' this is.
Let's not compare apples to oranges, okay? Yes, of course there are problems with this in most of the Muslim countries in the world. But, you have to remember *who* is doing these things. It's not the everyday religious. It's the extremists - AGAIN. There are vast amounts of Muslims living their faith each day in a calm and dignified manner, who are anti-war, anti-terrorist, etc. What they don't get is PRESS.
Now, do you really think that MSM is going to let the average American know that most Muslims don't agree with what goes on in that country? Hell no! Politically, that would be a bad thing. The present administration with its tremendous Christian attitude that Jesus can fix everything would be all over that like stink on shit. The press is only going to give us what the admininstration wants us to hear.
Honor killings in New York, London, Amsterdam, Paris Berlin, etc.
Yep...honor killings. Right. Whose honor? Most times it's an extremeist group claiming responsibility.
16 year old girls hung in Iran for being 'mouthy'.
16 year old girls are mouthy in any culture. And they're rash. And they think they're invincible. So, these girls mouthed off in front of someone who shouldn't have been mouthed off in front of. This saddens me. Immensely. But understand, that the situation there is so...."big brother" that had these girls even mouthed off in their home, if the neighbor or a visiting friend was visiting and was affiliated with the secret police, the girls would be arrested, tried and executed. It's not right...but once again, blame it on the regime and the power crazed people who will do anything for that pat on the head that will get them the attention they crave.
Rape victims being stoned to death in Sudan for being 'loose women'.
Women being raped and beaten endlessly in Lebanon, Palestine, Jordan, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Indonesia, etc.
Rape is not about religion. It's not about sex. It's about power. Are you taking offense with the women being "stoned"? And, exactly what do you think happens here in the United States with women every day in the courts? They are stoned by the attorneys who do everything in their power to discredit the women and make them look like "loose" women. Their sexual habits are examined in minute detail, they're interrogated on how many partners they've had (why is it that men are only allowed bragging rights as to how many women they've had?) This has absolutely nothing to do with religion. Period.
An entire SCHOOL full of girls being forced to burn to death rather than escape while being 'immodest' in Nigeria.
Not enough information. Conjecture would lead me to say, though, that based on what you've said, if this was an entire school of girls, then there should have been no way immodesty could come under attack. As girls in an all girls school, they were not in the public eye. They should have been able to dress as they would in private. But, as I said, there's not enough information to know if this was the case.
Islamics from Madrassas throught the world strapping bombs onto themselves and blowing up children.
These folks are brainwashed into believing that what they do is for the good and honor of Allah. They don't care who goes with them. They are only convinced their martyrdom will bring them a great reward in heaven.
Anyone speaking anything even remotely uncomplimentary about anything to do with Islam being hunted across the globe. Show me this mythical country where Islam is truly about choice and freedom and decency and keeping things 'precious'.
How about the United States? Haven't noticed a laser beam in the middle of your forehead yet!
I know how it SHOULD be - that is a very FAR cry from what it *IS* and *WAS*. Study the actions of the Islamists during their various wars (I'll except Saladin, mostly). It's NOT a 'tiny minority of extremists' - Not even close. Do the reading, study the numbers and ask yourself, how many have to tacitly support this active 'tiny minority' for it to be a sizable majority?
And history repeats itself,doesn't it? How about the Inquisition? What about the Crusades? Christians have done their fair share of extreme terrorism, too.
I'm not able to change the whole world. I'm good, but I'm not that good, I'm afraid! LOL! But as Gandhi said, "Be the change you want to see in the world." That doesn't make me a pacifist...I'm still a Warrior. But, even a Warrior has the right and the DUTY to learn about the "enemy". Many times we find that what we are so frightened of is nothing more than not understanding each other.
If I can interact with another culture, let them see me as a person, and I can learn to see them as a person, then suddenly there are two more people who have gained just a little more knowledge and grown a little more comfortable with each other.
And, if I can share something that I have learned, like that the people I've met choose to wear their garb and don't find it a burden, then it might make it easier for someone else to be a little more comfortable too...and may open up the ability to talk to someone *they* otherwise may have been too nervous or shy to do. But, that's my take, and that's how I am trying to change both myself and my little bit of world.
Those that insist on enforcing women’s dress codes which, in the most conservative examples, force women to go about in what could be viewed as ‘sacks’ with eye holes cut in them are not, in my view, protecting the honour of women. Rather they are dishonouring themselves by demonstrating that they don’t have the strength of character, sincerity of spirit or personal will to control their own basest instincts. The emotional (EQ) and spiritual (SQ) quotients of intelligence seem to be lacking in many. IQ is a ‘fluke’ and is not enough, the other two quotients are essential in large amounts to overcome personal stupidity or is it that they suffer from plain old ‘dumbness’ borne of a cultural indoctrination that looks to the past and pleads for the return of the ‘dark ages’!
I agree with your thoughts that *enforcement* of a dress code in the manner the Taliban and other fringe lunatics is wrong.
However, please don't confuse Islamic dress - the modesty, the hair covering, etc. as anything more. All of the Muslim women I work with choose OR NOT to wear the garb. And, they bring pictures to work to show us times when they did not wear head coverings, etc., but instead chose to wear shorts, sleeveless blouses, and all manner of clothing that would be considered more Western. They've chosen to wear these clothes.
Yet, on the other hand, although enforcement of a manner of dress, which if not done leads to beatings, ostracization, or even death, there are dress codes in place in every society and religion if you stop and think about it.
What about schools? Enforcement of a dress code puportedly keeps all children on an equal basis so one child doesn't feel left out from another because he/she cannot afford the latest fad clothing. What about jobs which require a certain kind of shirt, like wearing red shirts if you work for Target, or requirement of long-sleeved shirts in other professions? What about the 'no jeans' rule that many businesses have for their employees? Those are enforced. Is that wrong, then?
Thanks for stopping by.
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